I shot all the guns at 50yd today an started with my 45-70 ,couldn,t get the rear sight high enough to sight in an still fold it down out of the way of scope or red dot.so gave up on that an put my vortex venom on . I bore sight then shoot 1 shot ,hold the dot on the center where I aimed , move the dot to where the bullet hit an real close if you don,t move the gun while adj. I do the same with a crossbow.a few more clicks an couple more shots an I drilled the roofin nail in the center on my last shot that held the small white paper plate on an off it flew ole Lady Luck has made me hard on roofing nails here lately Next I got the old S&W 460 xvr performance center with 4x leupold out with factory loads 260 fed,200 hornady ftx. set the front on bag an put a death grip on it an shot a 3 shot group with each load . both groups measured 1-3/8 inches center to center. real happy with that for the way I was holding ,needed no death grip as it was a pleasure to shoot,roared like a cannon with a excellent trigger . took the scope off as I hate scoped handguns small red dot my pick then pellet gun to check poi after taking my red dot off an putting the varizone back on it that I had already had on it before an sighted in. no change as it kept hitting the same hole at ten yards with my hand resting on a bag. Next got the old vortex out an shot 25y off the bench resting my hand on a bag an just letting the forend lay in my palm. 2 -20 inch zombies with one razer feathers,1 with Blazers ,2 vertical arrows with both razer feathers ,one 32 inch ,one 20 inch . all shot in light breeze ,shot each arrow three times each for group . all good groups an shots cutting the same hole most times except the 32 inch that just made the hole larger each time.then the breeze picked up some an both zombies had 2 touching before the breeze an the other a 1/2 inch off. the 32 inch cut the same hole again the 32 inch is a carbon express heritage 250 buff tuff coating, 480g ,005 strait , +or- 2g wt,400 spine ,10.9 wt. per inch made for low poundage recurves I played with another one an got it shooting the same for groups an poia extremely accurate,forgiving arrow.